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Pieces of the puzzle [message #1394] Sat, 08 December 2007 06:01 Go to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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Part of the fun of being a Little Richard fan and collector is putting it all together, esp. with records/songs.

Can someone help on these two entries?:

How Richard's unreleased from 1965 to 1974 "You'd Better Stop" was "covered" by Laura Lee around 1967 as "Stop Giving Your Man Away" with different writer credits.

Richard's "Kansas City" [later titled "Kansas City/Hey-Hey-Hey-Hey!"] is lyrically completely different from the Wilbert Harrison song *and* from Richard's song of the same name from the first Specialty session in 09/55. (Incidentally, Richard recut it around '92, kind of a composite!]. Why is it credited to Leiber & Stoller? Any info.? If Richard is the true lyricist/composer for the track from The Fabulous Little Richard, do the Beatles [their record co.] owe their mentor and or/rights holder some "Money Honey"?




Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1395 is a reply to message #1394] Sat, 08 December 2007 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Beau Z. wrote on Sat, 08 December 2007 06:01

Part of the fun of being a Little Richard fan and collector is putting it all together, esp. with records/songs.

Can someone help on these two entries?:

How Richard's unreleased from 1965 to 1974 "You'd Better Stop" was "covered" by Laura Lee around 1967 as "Stop Giving Your Man Away" with different writer credits.

Richard's "Kansas City" [later titled "Kansas City/Hey-Hey-Hey-Hey!"] is lyrically completely different from the Wilbert Harrison song *and* from Richard's song of the same name from the first Specialty session in 09/55. (Incidentally, Richard recut it around '92, kind of a composite!]. Why is it credited to Leiber & Stoller? Any info.? If Richard is the true lyricist/composer for the track from The Fabulous Little Richard, do the Beatles [their record co.] owe their mentor and or/rights holder some "Money Honey"?








Beau, this is the kind of information I like ! I have the Laura Lee track on a CD and had never got round to playing it !

There's a history of re writing Gospel for R&B and I think it's fairly safe to say that some of Richards works are adaptations of traditional or well known Gospel, Blues and R&B songs...

"Stop Giving Your Man Away" has some different lyrics to Richards 'You Better Stop' and credits James Cleveland as co writer with Laura Lee so I wonder if the Rev James Cleveland was rewriting a Gospel song ?
Here's another couple of examples of things Richard recorded that were rewrites -
"Baby Don't You Tear My Clothes" is a version of "Baby Can I Hold Your Hand" Ray Charles first chart hit from 1951, and as we know 'Slippin and Slidin' is a re write of 'I'm Wise' !

Just dug my copy of the 'Right Now' album out. Mine's French and called "The Rockman" and it credits "DR" there as writer of 'Chain Of Fools' ...Don Covays song !

And I'd forgotten how good the track 'Geraldine Jones' is on that album !




Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1398 is a reply to message #1394] Sun, 09 December 2007 00:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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Left one out:

Richard Mystery #3:

Little Richard recorded "Do The Jerk" in 1965, (unless it was live in the studio in 1966) which is (as far as I can tell) the same as "Get Down With It".

It's been said that "Get Down With It" is essentially the same as Bobby Marchan's "Get Down With It", I assume recorded before Richard's tune.

I finally got a chance to hear Marchan and the only similarity is the *first seven words* of the song!

Now, later that year Richard recorded "Get Down With It" in England, for non-domestic release. Then, about six weeks later, cut it live at the Club Okeh.

Added to that: there are copyright registrations by LR for "Do The Jerk" and "Get Down With It".!

Beau.

Footnote: The group Slade did a great "cover" as "Get Down and Get Wit It", and Wayne Cochran performed it live on the Jackie Gleason Show, I believe in 1967. (I'll cherck if he did it in studio, as well).

Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1399 is a reply to message #1395] Sun, 09 December 2007 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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I feel that Walter Coleman's "Baby, Let Me Lay it on You" is the reference disc for Richard's '68 release. Of course, there's Lightin' Hopkins' "Baby, Don't Tear My Clothes", recently cut by Etta James! Then there's Dylan's "Baby, Let Me..." [can't recall the rest, I'm 56].

"Stingy Jenny", the B-side, is essentially a Bessie Smith song, the title of which I can't seem to keep in my head.

How about this one?: "Hot Nuts" is presumebaly based upon L'il Johnsons' "Get 'Em From The Peanut Man, Part Two"!!

Beau
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1400 is a reply to message #1399] Sun, 09 December 2007 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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Reply to myself:

Then, there's the "Keep A-Knockin'" progenitors, "Busy Bootin'", followed by Louis Jordans' "Keep A-Knockin". I believe J. Garodkin's book has a nice index of these teasers.

Beau
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1403 is a reply to message #1400] Sun, 09 December 2007 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timo is currently offline  timo
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To my knowledge, Keep A Knocking was first recorded by James "Boodle-It" Wiggins in '28.

Timo
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1404 is a reply to message #1394] Sun, 09 December 2007 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Robinson is currently offline  Michael Robinson
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I don't recall the details, but there was some legal action regarding Kansas City some years ago, as a result of which Richard did get co-writer's credit for the version that the Beatles recorded. I think this was around the early 1980s. If you look at CD reissues of the LP Beatles For Sale you can see that it's now listed as a medley of Kansas City/Hey Hey Hey Hey.

Michael
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1405 is a reply to message #1399] Sun, 09 December 2007 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Robinson is currently offline  Michael Robinson
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The Bessie Smith song is 'I Got What It Takes (But It Breaks My Heart To Give It Away)', recorded in May 1929 (at the same session as 'Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out'), and credited to Clarence Williams (who plays on the track) and Hezekiah Jenkins.

There are 1930s versions of 'Baby Don't You Tear My Clothes', sometimes titled 'Don't Tear My Clothes', by Washboard Sam, Red Nelson, the Harlem Hamfats and others. The earliest I know is by the State Street Boys, with Carl Martin and Big Bill Broonzy, made in January 1935.

Must say I think Richard's version is a neglected gem!


Michael
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1412 is a reply to message #1404] Mon, 10 December 2007 01:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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It seems to me that LR initially received 56,000 dollars for Hey-Hey-Hey-Hey!, but not for Kansas City, which I presume was still thought of as by Leiber and Stoller!!

Phil
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1431 is a reply to message #1395] Sun, 16 December 2007 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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Another puzzle piece? "Geraldine Jones" was titled "Gerald Jones" on the "Right Now!" album. It was copyrighted as "Geraldine Jones".

I wonder if everyone knows that "Geraldine Jones" is also a character on the Flip Wilson Show, which started around 1970-71.
Richard's track was cut in 1973, so it was a kind of tribute to the great Flip Wilson and his invention.

I don't love the track, as it should have been mixed to mono, and edited. But it's pure '50s R & R! By the way, I wish there would be more lively discussion on that 'oddball' "Right Now" album. It was reported to have been cut in one night, and contains some really interesting roots material. If copyright dates are an indicator, then it took about 1.5 years for the record to come out, and check this: it was released by Modern Records! What I mean is, a subsidiary of that great, indie run by the Bihari Brothers. It seems that although Richard was never a "Modern artist", he contracted for that great blues, R & B, and Gospel label to release his productions. So, it appears that about 8 years later, he returned to the fold to issue this LR/Bumps Blackwell-produced set.

The material was much stronger than what was offered on that experimental, "progressive", final Reprise album, [which couldn't make up its' mind if it was '50s or '70s] and it was great to be able once again to *hear* Little Richard - his voice and keyboard was upfront (though the piano placement was still just a tad remote). Almost forgot this important piece: if you dug the instrumental "Mississippi" (aka "Funky Dish Rag"/alternative mix), then you'll enjoy the later *vocal* version found on the United-Superior set.

His singing is not as powerful as on "The 'Rill' Thing", but the '74 album is just as "rill'!!

[My impression is that] "Right Now!" is another Ace Records item anticipating its' commercial rebirth. www.acerecords.co.uk

Holy Mackeral! Beau
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1472 is a reply to message #1405] Sat, 29 December 2007 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Clarification: as I recall reading, Richard received/was to receive 56,000 dollars for Hey Hey Hey Hey, after Mrs. Rupe overheard the Beatles' or Richards' "Kansas City" [the '59 release] over the radio perhaps in a restaurant. She heard the Hey Hey... part and investigated.

As I wrote, I'm still totally mystified that the first part of the LR "Kansas City", then changed to "Kansas City/Hey Hey Hey Hey", was not identified as to what is obviously a completely different composition from Leiber and Stoller's "Kansas City". The only similarity I can detect is in the title and the blues chord progression.

I feel that there are two different "Kansas City"(s). The Leiber and Stoller song and the Little Richard Penniman song.

It is a true puzzle piece, if you take it even further, that Richard would record a different song by the *same title* of a song he laid down two months before in 1955! Is it possible that he wasn't pleased with the "Tutti Frutti"-session L & S "Kansas City" [that's a stretch to me; it was very good - released for the first time on the '70 "Well, Alright!" album on Specialty]; or he thought he could do even better, and in an inspiration, basically made up new words on the spot - though the melodies are different.

Phil

PS from PS: Oh yeah, folks - Hey Hey Hey Hey started out as "Birmingham". Now was the LR "Kansas City", cut at that later '55 session, a kind of precursor of the '56 cut of Hey Hey Hey Hey (?) Whew! Maybe it's time for this fan to *Shut up!* and just enjoy the sounds!!


Phil
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1493 is a reply to message #1472] Fri, 04 January 2008 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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Hey ya'll!! Let it all hang out!!! Let's try a new puzzle piece!!!! How about....the title of Little Richard's 1965 soul classic, "I Don't Know What You've Got (But It's Got Me)"?

The song title itself is found fully or partially in the verses of a song by it's writer/co-writer, Mr. Don Covay, called "Take This Hurt Off Me" (Rosemart 802), in a later composition (with Mr. Penniman as co-writer) called "She's Together", and in an Otis Redding song "Good To Me".

Beau.
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1495 is a reply to message #1493] Sat, 05 January 2008 07:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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"Slippin' And Slidin'" (!). That great Paul Simon hit! Just kidding. [aka "Slippin' and Slidin' (Peepin' And Hidin')].

Let's see. It appears that Eddie Bo and Al Collins (|I Got The Blues For You") had very similar tunes out in the early '50s, which Richard apparently used as reference discs when he fashioned his own version, the rockin' version.

It seems that he recorded his first takes at an audition or demo session, somewhere, sometime. Could it have been live at Art Rupe's office in California, along with "Chicken Little Baby"?

At any rate, his first professional cut came at the "True, Fine Mama" session in late '55. Went unreleased (and now apparently missing). Came back strong at the "Long Tall Sally" session and it was the inevitable B-side of Specialty's bigger seller.

The story goes that before it exploded from the pressing plant, it had it's own behind-the-scenes shake-up. Bumps Blackwell, a musical genius, apparently was not an Administrative genius, and so Mr. Rupe had some sorting out to do with another publishing company. However, according to the magazine Blue Suede News (Issue #30), Eddie Bo states that at the time that he had *not copyrighted his composition* and when his record was brought to Little Richard, Eddie's catchy phrase, "slippin' and slidin'", became a song title for the ages and a B-side superior to most A-sides in History. The vague implication here is that Bumps forged ahead without checking out the publishing on "I'm Wise", which never existed in the sense that it was not protected by copyright.

The next workout was in Los Angeles in August of 1964 - most likely. Richard was working on his first comeback album - all "covers" but one (unless Bo Pete/Harry Nillson's "Groovy Little Suzy" was already recorded and was also a cover). Looks like/sounds like Richard decided to include a cover of himself - yes, that gem of a B-side from 1956. At that session which spawned "Suzy" Richard did a cookin', off-kilter rendition, with his voice and keyboard the lead instruments [see, he knew how to record himself!]. And another Little Richard mystery ensued.
This track was *apparently* put away for safe-keeping as his second Vee Jay album [all covers of Little Richard!] was being planned. Maybe the minimalist earlier cut didn't fit in sonically with the booming echo arrangements on the drawing board.

But, never to fear. The "Groovy Little Suzy"-sounding "Slippin'" did come out. As an A-side on the Modern label!! (Oh, by the way, it's companion also found a spot on a Modern record - albeit in longer form and if my ears are sound [no pun], pitch adjusted.

Next visitation: about one year later - 1965 at the Domino in Atlanta, the much-discussed live in concert near-lemon of an album which should have emerged from the assemblyline without the bells and whistles to drain its' battery. In disrepair almost from the gitgo, some over-reaching tech. trainee apparently decided to insert a recording not intended for the album. Right. You guessed it, S & S (P & H). Except this time, Richard uncharacteristically hits a bad note on piano, and struggles through with a bad throat. (He does manage to coax a cookin' band performance from the Upsetters, though) .Yeah, why not try to camulflage that with an overdub of screeching teens? That's another story.

Counting now, uh, 8 Slippin's. (Paul Simon keeping track. jk).

About one year later - 1966 in England - Richard finally gets to cut "The Rockin' Chair" (back in '57 the title was discussed at a Specialty session). Though credited to Fats Domino, the only similarity I can detect is in the title. Guess what again: if that isn't an *instrumental* of "Slippin' and Slidin'", I'll eat that proverbial rain/meteoroid deflector. Did I mention? It went unreleased until 2004.

Now to about *ten* years later. In Nashville. Two more cuts in recreation of the original hit version arrangement/performance. One for "Little Richard - Live", K-Tel, 1976 and "Little Richard", Audio Encores, 1980. One an alternate take.

Did I miss one?

It's been reported on this site that Little Richard has expressed the desire to redo some of his recordings. I wonder.....

Beau
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1499 is a reply to message #1495] Mon, 07 January 2008 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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I'm gonna take a rest after this one: "Lucille"

Some of the lyrics to the Penniman/Collins composition are also heard in the earlier Clyde McPhatter "Lucille".

It seems that the True King referenced that disc along with Ruth Brown's "Mama, He Treats Your Daughter" and his own blues ballad "Directly From My Heart To You" (at that point still a great number looking for a permanent home - he even remade it almost 10 years later in Memphis!), when he stepped up to the mike, looked back at Charles Connor, and sang his heart out.
It was progressive syncopation, another asteroid to upset the world - one of his most creative opuses (despite what the Beatles and Hendrix writers might dismiss).

Any thoughts out there? Have I misplaced a funky puzzle piece?

Beau [my-my-my, I'd rather *not* do it myself!].
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1523 is a reply to message #1499] Tue, 15 January 2008 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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"She's Together"!

Yes, Richard's co-composition (with the great Don Covay) was cut in NYC in '67 and has never made it to CD. (The flipside, "Try Some Of Mine", has that distinction on two occasions).

In a Penniman News issue at the time, Bumps Blackwell is quoted as saying that this new record originally featured a very busy piano a la Penniman, and guess what? It was either removed from the master mix or it's barely audible. Any "takers" for scientific analysis out there?

It's a bright, bouyant beat with a barrage of words delivered in rapid staccato by the Master of that technique. I'd love to understand even *half* of them, but baby, that is Rock and Roll!
(Sometimes Soul - if there are any James Brown [for the record, Richards' first protege] fans out there, please help with the lyrics to "Brother Rapp"!!).

A great phrase is found on this A-side groover: "...a little piece of leather...". Anybody know on what other record it's heard? Any Donnie Elbert fans out there? There's got to be minor planets' worth! C'mon!!

Okay - guess the title of his track. Anyone? How about...."A Little Piece Of Leather" (Sue Records). It's another happy opus from a Soul legend.

It comes to mind that Little Richard used this expression on at least one *other* occasion - on U.S.A. Television! On a Dick Cavett Show in 1970, along with controversial critic John Simon, the author of the book "Love Story", and the sensuous Broadway star, Chita Rivera, Richard directed this funky phrase to the individual who most likely would appreciate it the most, when she apparently misunderstood his earlier romantic entreaty.

By the way, we can keep an eye on the Brunswick Records site for the announcement of the release on iTunes/other of the six sides, of course including the "tribute" to Chita Rivera.

Beau



Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1552 is a reply to message #1523] Fri, 25 January 2008 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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Looks like the Little Richard - Rock Hudson (aka King of Rock and Rock) connection has become a good ol' puzzle piece.

Recap: Richard mentioned his involvement with a Rock Hudson movie apparently June and July of 1970, on the George Hound Dog Lorenz radio show (where he stated it was a non-singing role) and about a month later on The Mike Douglas television show (when he said it was a Warner Brothers film, and he was to play "The Insane Minister").

Well, a nice and easy web cruise reveals that Hudson made no movies for WB 1970-71. The best candidate is "Pretty Maids All In a Row" released in 1971 on MGM.

Rock Hudson did film a TV pilot for "MacMillan And Wife" in '71 -I forgot to look up if that show was done at MGM. Did Richard mean MGM and a TV episode ("Made For TV" movie)?.

With Richard at the top of his game vocally at that time, no-singing, alas, would have been...pro-stinging (you get the idea...it's near my zzz-time).

As everyone knows, Richard is quoted as saying that he had Rock in mind when he did "Someone Cares" on his "Lifetime Friend" album.

Beau
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1553 is a reply to message #1523] Fri, 25 January 2008 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Robinson is currently offline  Michael Robinson
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I agree - She's Together is another neglected gem.

And another precursor: Herman (aka Harmon) Ray made "I'm A Little Piece of Leather" in May 1949 - the refrain goes "I'm a little piece of leather don't you know/And I'm well put together don't you know.... " A nice rhythm and blues number, but Richard's effort is a minor masterpiece.


Michael
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1554 is a reply to message #1553] Sat, 26 January 2008 02:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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That puzzle-piece is hipper than hip! Goes to show how Richard was in tune with musical predecessors - a true historian as well as super originator.

Gotta look that one up! (Where's that credit card I hid?).

Beau
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1703 is a reply to message #1394] Fri, 29 February 2008 04:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beau Z. is currently offline  Beau Z.
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Support your local Mom & Pop Retailer!

Just purchased a 1.99 used double album "Slade Alive!" on Polydor from 1972, with "Get Down With It" credited to Bobby Marchan. Maybe this recording *is* the BM composition which is the same as Little Richard's as far as the title and seven words which are not repeated after the first line of the fist verse!

Do I dare play this cut? That would involve some extension cord slinging or removing, from an apparent hermetically sealed box, my new turntable with the built-in speakers. Any Forum friends out there who are familiar with this live recording?

So let's see...we have "Get Down With It" by Bobby Marchan and "Get Down With It" by Little Richard, essentially two different songs. We have a LR studio or live version from Modern Records titled "Do The Jerk", then the Abbey Road cut called "Get Down With It", with Bluesologie, followed by the live in Hollywood version from 1967. Of course we have Slade's studio cut of (pause) "Get Down And Get With It". And as I wrote, Slade's live "Get Down With It".

Is Richard Penniman owed some bux? Escuse the presumptuous statement from a music industry layman (though a conscientious one).

By the way, Mom & Pop retailers are still the "heart" of what's left of the Record business, though the idea of selling something used bears some inspection: only the "locals" make a couple o' dollars. Or 1.99.

Big shout-out to all the Rockin' Souls out there who love rill Rock n' Soul, especially as presented by the Architect.


Beau
Re: Pieces of the puzzle [message #1704 is a reply to message #1703] Fri, 29 February 2008 12:35 Go to previous message
timo is currently offline  timo
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Let everybody see Slade get down with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7XEjl5GNS8

Timo
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